Well it seems that even so-called "Christian" organizations are not immune to the lustful greed prevalent in large multinational corporations. Could it be that the bigger they get, the more they resemble the world?
Throughout this month and possibly beyond, Compassion International will be laying off its IT staff in Colorado so they can outsource to Red China where the work is substantially cheaper. Of course we’ve come to expect this kind of behavior from the secular world, but is it really appropriate for a parachurch organization to behave this way?
There is little more frustrating than to be forced to train your replacements and this company in particular has apparently forsaken it's namesake in pursuit of the "bottom line". Clearly, Compassion International has more compassion for the children their ministry supports than it does for the Christians working there. And apparently it also values enemy China more as well.
So how is a Christian supposed to react to this?
Now I'm not saying that nobody should ever be laid off if there is a business failure eminent or for good cause. I’m sure the decision makers will tell you they have no choice; that they must remain "competitive". And it may be that these job terminations are a combination of circumstances, most likely poor planning and management incompetence. But that’s not what I’m talking about.
I've heard more than one Christian applaud outsourcing decisions describing them as being "shrewd". They may even say the company is "doing God's will" because donor's dollars become more efficient and that way more poor people can be helped.
Let's examine that last thought (and please excuse me while I swallow the vomit in the back of my throat). Are Christians to be "shrewd"? Are they to take from one people to give to another - taking even from their own brothers?
Sure, we are to feed the poor and widows. But are we to accomplish that by harming others - especially other Christians? What do the scriptures say about this?
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You are clearly a Compassion employee. I would venture a guess that you are one of the handful who is training his Chinese replacement. Your identity would not be difficult to learn.
ReplyDeleteAnd please, show us where God promised you any level of prosperity. He commanded you to go into all the earth and instead you have stayed in the US on your cozy butt complaining about getting laid off. You (maybe) came close when you served Compassion in the role that is no longer a viable US job. Go back to school and learn something marketable (in the US) or move where your work takes you.
American Christianity does not need any political ideology that reduces the value of human life, republican, democrat or otherwise. Even after getting laid off you are in the upper 4% of the wealthy of the world.
Enjoy your unemployment and stop complaining.
When threats are made to scare and intimidate a person, what was said to spark the threats, is far to close to the truth for comfort.
ReplyDeleteGreat post! and verified true. Bring the light to the darkness and let the truth be known.
ReplyDeleteEnemy China? Is that what your Bible says? Threats? Verified true?
ReplyDeleteHarm?
I am thinking you were laid off for reasons other than the bottom line.
Why are all of these post anonymous? I can understand why the author chose to stay anonymous, but what's the deal with all you goons leaving comments and not leaving your name?
ReplyDeleteWhoever that first person is may have a few good points, but they are being inflammatory and need to be brought down to the level of reality they are calling the blog author to. Get off your high horse buddy and grow a pair, post your name and get on with your own life instead of insulting others.
Interesting ... I wasn't expecting to be attacked for posting this.
ReplyDeleteI am only guessing that the 1st and 4th posts are the same individual. Why don't you give yourself at least a handle name so we can distinguish between the posts? For now, I'll just call that poster "Mean Guy".
Let me clarify some things:
1. The 2nd and third posts are not the author of this blog, that would be me. But thank you, whomever you are (could be one or two different people, not sure). As you've pointed out, must have hit a nerve.
2. To Mean Guy: China is an enemy of the United States. This fact has nothing to do with the Bible, I never said it did.
3. To Mean Guy: I am not an Compassion employee, nor have I ever been.
However... it sounds like you are! Why does this upset you so much? Are you defending Compassion's actions based on scripture? If so, I'd love to learn from you - that's what this blog is about.
If instead your goal is to intimidate people for speaking the truth, you are messing with the wrong individual.
But back to the main point - I asked what scriptures might have to say about all this. Do you have any?
Brett G: Thank you for being civil and courageous enough to call out poor blog etiquette.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about all this? Do you have any thoughts either way based on scripture?
First of all let me say sorry for being inflammatory. I have been a Compassion sponsor since the early 90s and the work of Compassion is dear to me. Second of all, my Compassion "source" (who is an employee and must remain anonymous) tells me that the layoffs in IT have to do with restructuring a broken department and have nothing to do with any sort of Chinese outsourcing plan. Thinking Christian was given misinformation.
ReplyDeleteScripturally, Christians have been told to go into all nations baptizing them. Matthew 24:14 tells us that until we do so the end will not come. First Peter tells us that we are to look forward to and "hasten" (that means to doped up) the returning of the Lord. I count my Zion citizenship of higher value than my American citizenship. Both were bought at a price, but my Lords sacrifice was all the more precious. Is China an enemy? No, China is a mission field.
Whatever it takes to get Jesus into the hearts of the Chinese is something I am ok with. If it means some Americans might be displaced from their cushy jobs, ok.
I pray that American Christians would have more opportunities to interact with intelligent, educated Chinese nationals.
Apologetically,
"Mean guy"
Note: the spellchecker somehow turned speed into doped, that was weird. Also, I forgot to say that my Compassion friend says that this whole thing is complicated by a number of US and state employment laws designed to protect employees. These laws make "addressing this publically" difficult if not impossible for Compassion.
ReplyDeleteSearching online I see no press statement released by Compassion regarding layoffs or outsourcing. Until such a time I will take the word of my friend at Compassion over this blog owner who is not "an" Compassion employee.
"Mean guy"
Matthew 10:16 does call us to be shrewd in our dealings with people. I have not done a full study of the Greek but I think that verse may not be in the context of dealings with other Christians. It could make sense though, because, although we are all Christians who work here, we are still a business and need to have a sight of the bottom line, i would argue against us having a focus on it. It should be in our sights though.
ReplyDeleteI think the author is more concerned with the way it was handled here. All of a sudden, BOOM, heaps of people are laid off. Did we really have to do it that way? It seems the leadership is playing word games with us now. No one was fired or laid off, but they were displaced. Seriously? Displaced? Oh people.... politics is everywhere, isn't it?
Point to make at Mean Guy: we do not have cushy jobs here. Well, it is all in a matter of context of course. Compared to the heroes, our Project Facilitators, then yes, we at the Colorado Springs headquarters have cushy jobs.
But hey, you mention US and Colorado law forcing the hand of in how they address this. That would only make since that there is a law on the books that prevents straight forward communication and requires double speak and play on words.
Funny you mock this guy for using "an" instead of "a" when you made a horrible mistake in changing speed to doped. At lease his grammatically error still made his words readable. Your mistake just made me say, "wwwaaaaaaaa?"
Brett G, you have identified yourself as a Compassion employee. I am curious if you are a part of the blogging team? I read several of the Compassion related blogs on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteAre you releasing information on behalf of Compassion or are you just giving your opinion? Having been involved with Compassion since 1992, I have always thought of Compassion as very careful with its public relationship. That is part of what has kept me with them as a sponsor for so long.
"an Mean guy"
No, I'm just a guy, not part of the blog team. The blogs are too well written to be something could word together. I'm not a writer, haha.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm not sure what is going on here, but just like you, I do have trust in the leadership here and do believe they have the best interest in mind for the organization and the sponsors. I am just baffeled at this situation.
haha, "A Brett"
very interesting thread. "Guy"...Compassion IT outsources work to China today and has been for the last year and a half.
ReplyDeleteALL corporate restructures are pitched as "fixing a broken something". But let me ask you this.....
if you were to layoff people while saying you were not outsourcing to China.....and 5 months later sent "additional work" to your "partner company" in China....isn't that effectivley the same thing? Especially if it's work your prior-domestic staff could have done?
Dudly,
ReplyDeleteHow does Compassion outsourcing its technology work to China for the past year an a half translate to the hysteria below that the blog owner posted about?
"Throughout this month and possibly beyond, Compassion International will be laying off its IT staff in Colorado so they can outsource to Red China where the work is substantially cheaper."
Sounds like if this was happening a year and a half ago there has been adequate warning for all of Compassion's IT staff to find other work.
So has most of the department been released?
Have hatchet men been brought in to do the dirty work (firing, downsizing)?
"if you were to layoff people while saying you were not outsourcing to China.....and 5 months later sent "additional work" to your "partner company" in China....isn't that effectivley the same thing? Especially if it's work your prior-domestic staff could have done?"
Not if that was not your intention in the first place. If you are saying that somehow there are cruel sinister intentions behind anyone making business decisions that sounds pretty awful. Frankly I don't see how anybody but God could make that determination.
the mean anonymous guy
Sorry guys, but Matthew 10:16 doesn't apply. Being persecuted for our faith has nothing whatsoever to do with advising Christians to be shrewd with other Christians. Try again.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, try this one out:
Malachi 3:5 "Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts."
Or this one:
Galatians 6:10 - "So then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us work for the good of all, and especially for those of the family of faith."
While I wholeheartedly support the work that Compassion accomplishes for the impoverished children around the world, as a former employee for Compassion IT who was not laid off, I can attest to the fact that Compassion leadership in Colorado Springs tends to treat employees as a commodity / resource and not as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and does not encourage humility and servant leadership. I think it is important to separate love for the mission work from the issues regarding internal practices and policies of the organization. I do not necessarily believe that outsourcing is inherently Christian or not Christian in itself, but what is more important are the motives behind doing it and the way it is carried out.
ReplyDeleteThe other issue that I have seen which relates to this thread is the amount of "spin" that is used when portraying policy decisions in order to deflect blame. Passing blame has become entrenched in the environment in IT, which has led to much dysfunction. These dysfunctional cultural values and the devaluing of employees and their families are more visible than the values that you would expect from a Christian organization. Of course, this isn't an across the board generalization of all staff and leadership attitudes at Compassion. There are many godly employees who continue to be Christ-like in their attitudes and actions. However, many of the secular values that I have mentioned have become the prevailing governing philosophy in IT more often than not, which makes me agree with the original poster’s statement, “Compassion International has more compassion for the children their ministry supports than it does for the Christians working there”
Former Compassion Anon:
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting. I agree with your praise of the work Compassion does. Although I am saddened by your experience, I cannot say I am surprised.
However, I don't understand why you think "it is important to separate love for the mission work from the issues regarding internal practices and policies of the organization". Wouldn't that be the very characteristic that distinguishes organizations like Compassion from that of secular companies? If not, exactly what is it that distinguishes Compassion (and other parachurch organizations) from other charitable organizations?
I do agree that as you said, it being important, "the motives behind doing it and the way it is carried out". But even if those motives were sincere, what if they are misguided and more importantly, not scriptural?
That is my goal - to have an impact on their behavior, not to ratify their self-thought good intentions. Consider this please:
Matthew 16:23 - Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Thinking Christian,
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstood my post.
I was trying to point out to "guy" that even though one can respect Compassion for the good works that it does, it doesn't necessarily follow that everything that it does internally is good. One can love the work to the children that is carried out by the field, without needing to defend or love the work that is done by local leadership. I actually do see the two as separate, since the field workers are not employees of Compassion, but separate organizations that Compassion partners with. I don't know enough about the staff in the field to speak to that side of the organization. I do have first-hand experience with local staff, so I believe I can shed some light to that environment.
You are correct. The judging of motives is not based on sincerity - truly many people have performed horrible acts with sincere motives - but they are judged on their alignment (and the heart's alignment) with God's will and laws. What's more, the correct direction is not enough; the execution of the plan needs to also align with God's statutes. 1 Cor 13:1 speaks to works without love and Matthew 7:21-23 talks about people that did good works, but didn't know God and were not known by God. What I was trying to say is that regardless of whether outsourcing is good or bad, judgments can be made on the motives and actions in carrying out the plan, and though I do not believe I know the individuals well enough to know their hearts and motives, I do feel relatively certain that the actions in the execution of past and present directives have often lacked love, compassion, and Christ-likeness.
I have two questions.
ReplyDelete1) Is everyone over-spiritualizing this?
2) The ends justify the means?
Brett G,
ReplyDeleteI think that is probably the best question asked so far. "Is everyone over spiritualizing this?"
Yep.
"Mean Guy"
Former Compassion Anon:
ReplyDeleteThanks - sorry I misunderstood.
I see how the two can be thought of as separate - but that is part of the problem.
My point is that they should not be - or if they are, the character of Christ should come first for a "Christian" organization. And in such an environment, one could not avoid the ethical question of whether or not outsourcing is acceptable Christian behavior. If anyone disagrees with this stance, they are "giving a pass", a wink or a nod to the world in my opinion and ignoring the tough issues of life the Bible exists to help us cope with.
Not to mention the Holy Spirit... I can't imagine anyone consulting the heart of God and coming back with a conclusion that barring any financial collapse, outsourcing is "okay". But ... this is about searching the scriptures so I'll try to stay on topic. :-)
Brett G:
ReplyDelete1) Is everyone over-spiritualizing this?
Well, no. That is the entire point of the post - to examine the scriptures. You are welcome to participate or not. But please don't attempt to marginalize the effort. And you were doing so well … :-)
2) The ends justify the means?
Exactly. I think this is the best question so far: Is "ends justifies the means" something that Jesus would do?
"Christian Organization" is a misnomer in and of itself. We see difficulties between Christians going back as early as Christians. So, as an organization cannot have a relationship with the messiah-only an individual can-it seems kind of silly that we would expect anything other than human behavior from any organization that is not the church.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, Compassion should not even have to exist at all. If the Church were actually obeying her groom it would not be necessary to get rich westerners to support ministries in the third world. The developing world would look a whole lot different than it does today. So... Rather than second guessing Compassion's leadership why don't we instead focus this conversation inward and ask ourselves if we are being the bride or if we are just wearing a pretty white dress.
To use proof-texts on a blog site to justify anyones "holy anger." just seems incredibly offensive.
I like Bretts question earlier but I realize that i interpret it just a little differently than others perhaps. I think I read it to mean... "Are we over religioned, polite-little-nice-person, don't be mean, that's not church nice this whole thing.?"
Yeah- life sucks sometimes. Humanity is broken. God uses broken people and broken institutions to heal what? Yeah the broken.
So what? Get over it. Someone was mean to me in church last weak. Wha! Waaaaaa! (sob, sob)
Yeah, I have to go back to my "Mean-guy" roots and say so what?
Some overpaid Americans with unneeded skills get replaced with cheaper labor. That sucks. What sucks worse is that America ever let the gap between our way of life and those in poverty get so wide. That gap is the reason Compassion exists and it is also the reason that labor is so much cheaper in so many other countries.
It is completely naive for an American-Christian to not see that we are the problem in so many ways.
The Mean Guy
Mean Guy:
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious that you think American engineers are "overpaid". Why do you believe that?
Have you people learned nothing from TV? Namely, Survivor?!
ReplyDeleteJust a couple weeks ago, JT and Rupert kept saying how it was obvious that Parvati was running the game and Russel was about to get booted. When the whole time it was Russel running the game and he played the Heros and shook the entire game up. That being said, you should stop making absolute statements such as they were.
It is not obvious that he thinks American IT people are overpaid, it just seems to appear that way.
Brett G,
ReplyDeleteI was going somewhere with that thought (the notion of engineers being overpaid), but it looks like Mean Guy lost interest.
The point I would make there is that every American job is "overpaid" in a global economy. Engineers aren't the only ones being outsourced these days, and unless you are doing a job that cannot be outsourced (like say janitor work), then your job may be at risk as well. At the very least, there is a permanent downward pressure on your wages.
Anyway, back to the point - no one seems to be able to refute my scriptures, so I guess I'm right: outsourcing is not scriptural based on Malachi 3:5, Galatians 6:10, Matthew 16:23 and a host of others I haven't even got around to yet.
Wait wait wait!
ReplyDeleteOutsources is not scriptural so it must be wrong?
That is messed up.
You cannot make an argument one way or another simply against outsourcing based on what is not in the Bible.
The Bible doesn't talk about a lot of things, therefore they are wrong? Doubtful.
That's like saying, the Bible doesn't support eating ice cream, therefore, Ben & Jerry's is sinful (sinfully delicious!).
Outsourcing in itself is neither right nor wrong. STOP OVER SPIRITUALIZING it. Motives are what you ought to examine. Be careful when doing that, for you will be judged accordingly.
Perhaps you should judge based on the fruit produced. If one must spiritualize an organization, you ought to judge it by the same way we are told to judge other believers. By the fruit it produces. Can we say that Compassion produces good fruit (or playing the wordsmith's game, the Holy Spirit uses Compassion to produce good fruit)? Doesn't the Bible refer to us as branches? Don't farmers prune their trees regularly to keep the trees healthy and able to produce the best and maximum amount of fruit?
Do we really need to keep trying to spiritualize everything or can we just come out and say what the intent was from the beginning? I would like to see some honesty here. We all know what's on everyone's mind and no one wants to say it... why? BECAUSE, we know that we ought not make accusations we cannot back up with anything other than speculation and heresay (and some common sense). All you can do is cast a cloud of doubt in the guise of spirituality. Shame, shame, shame.
Where do I stand on this issue? All of my posts seem to fall into a different camp. Isn't that interesting?
And I have a name, it's Brett. I still think the lot of you are chicken coward heads.
Brett Said:
ReplyDelete"Outsourcing in itself is neither right nor wrong"
Really? It seams to me that if you harm others to "do good", then that is wrong. Outsourcing harms others, even if it benefits some in the process.
If you disagree with that, then you fall into the camp of your earlier question, asking if "the ends justifies the means", right?
So apparently you believe that it's okay for Christians to play Robin Hood.
By the way, I'd be happy to meet any of you - I am not hiding anything.
ReplyDeleteAlso do not think that my motive is to bash the organization of Compassion International. I am merely pointing out the truth and I am sincerely trying to grapple with this issue in a larger sense.
My passion about exposing this issue came long before this incident happened. God put me in a place to observe it from a distance, and so I am merely incorporating this unfortunate turn of events into my blog. I am trying to make good out of evil - something I think we are all called to do. God is a god of justice, and outsourcing is unjust, plain and simple, "good business" or not. It's bad enough that it occurs so often in our world, but it's worse when Christians not only wink at it, but approve of it. I find it hypocritical and disgusting - very "un-Christian".
My sense is that Compassion, along with many churches and Christians today, have adopted a Babylonian mindset. Personally, I believe that as Christians we marginalize ourselves (and more importantly the God we claim to serve) when we bow to the ways of the world and place them over those of our Lord. We are called to take our minds captive, not to compartmentalize "business" from our Christianity.
If that's overly spiritual for milk-toast "Christians", so be it.
Hello again! Dang, I'm never going to finish my stupid research paper for school with all these interruptions.
ReplyDeleteDo your means justify your ends? Sure seems like you are doing harm just as you are calling out others you claim are doing harm.
Keeping with your theme of Biblical references, where does it mandate us to make good out of evil? Isn't that what God does? Romans 8:28? It is beginning to sound like you are wanting to play god? Yes? No?
Robin Hood cannot be compared to outsourcing. I've seen Men in Tights (the movie too) and they stole from the rich because they were stealing from the poor.
I do not find it believable that the choice to outsource (which isn't always to China or India, mind you) is to take away jobs of those spoiled, cushy engineers, like that mean guy says, and provide jobs for the world's poor because... Ok, see, now you're starting to run my tangent into politics and all this jazz.
This just makes it all the more clear to me, there is not black and white in this topic. The action it self, neither evil nor good, but the argument can be made on ethical principles, not spiritual, in my book.
talking it out certainly makes you recognize and question and solidify what you believe yourself. this is good, but anonymity can breed deceit.
Brett,
ReplyDeleteWell it's quite a stretch to equate my ranting on a blog with a large corporation eliminating the livelihood of hard working engineers who have served faithfully at an organization for years. If that's "playing God" I am totally okay with that form of the game. And I'm ready to be judged for it as well.
I am also one of those "kooks" who can't easily distinguish ethics from spirituality - because that is the sole source of my ethics (I've tried others, they don't work so well). You'll just have to overlook that quirk, I guess.
Better get back to that paper - I sincerely wish you well. But... I hope you can get a better job with the degree I am assuming you are pursuing because with outsourcing (and insourcing) I'm afraid you are going to be too expensive in a global marketplace. :-/
Mean Guy said:
ReplyDelete"Some overpaid Americans with unneeded skills get replaced with cheaper labor."
If the jobs weren't needed, they wouldn't be replaced now, would they?
It is hardly a stretch, it is just a matter of scale. Just because you are not able to see into your own argument as coming across as potentially doing harm, then you need to step back and have an honest look at your postings.
ReplyDeleteHey, kookmeister, deriving your ethic from spirituality is fine. That is how, I believe, it has to be done to hold any solid, philosophical argument. But ethics, and this is where I may be mistaken, I'm not an apologist or philosopher, deals with grey areas where there is no legal or spiritual right or wrong that can always be explained 100% the same way.
Now, I'm right there with you. You are playing word games though. "large corporation eliminating the livelihood of hard working engineers who have served faithfully at an organization for years." of course that sounds horrible! What an awful thing to do! But what if it was worded like this "large corporation executed performance reviews and laid off a number of employees who were not producing in line with their job description."
Both are true, but they both seem so opposite.
Yeah?
---------------------
"Some overpaid Americans with unneeded skills get replaced with cheaper labor."
If the jobs weren't needed, they wouldn't be replaced now, would they?
---------------
Quite true, quite true
Brett said : "Both are true, but they both seem so opposite. Yeah?"
ReplyDeleteNo. That's because they are two different things. As I have said all along, I'm not talking about firing somebody for just cause or for economic reasons. I am talking about replacing one set of workers for a cheaper foreign set. That is the definition of outsourcing. So who is really playing word games?
I am both an apologist and a philosopher, so I can clarify this for you :) Grey areas do exist, but most the time they can be filtered out into black and white, they just require more qualification and thought. In fact, we just performed such an exercise above by distinguishing between termination motives. By filtering out situations where outsourcing is done to save going under we are left with the crux of the issue.
What motives are left for a Christian to consider? I would argue only two: (1) Bottom Line Theology and (2) Robin Hood Ministry. I've already explained the concepts behind these themes and I have other posts on this blog that describe them in further detail. There are perhaps different variations, but these seem to be the common ones.
p.s. - I've taken an "honest look" at my postings and I am becoming even more enamored with them. God help me.
As someone currently working for Compassion IT, there's a lot of information that you guys don't have. It's the incongruence between leadership's words and their actions that cause the most grief for all of us affected by it. They preach these Leadership Principles - one of them being Cherish Family - but whose family are they talking about? It's obviously not the 20 people who are now out of work because management's own whacked out idea of running Compassion IT as a "business" has failed miserably. None of their heads were on the chopping block. It was the people who supposedly "didn't perform" that got the ax. My question is this: was it the coach or the player that failed? Because we've had the same coach for 6 or 7 years now and a lot of the players have changed during that time, but the results keep coming out the same. I think it's time to look at the coach.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't the coach own a side business with the Exec VP? You can't fire your friends. Cherish friends, not family. Cherish conflicts of interest, not integrity.
ReplyDelete...allegedly
Luke 16:13 (New International Version)
ReplyDelete"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."